Question on path of learning

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Permalink Reply by Brent Buhler on May 1, 2009 at 6:39pm

It really depends upon what kind of music you want to play. Classical is different from folk, is different from jazz, is different from rhythm is different from lead is different from delta blues. But if a beginner was wanting to know how to play folk and popular I start with first position chords (many songs are played in first position.) Then I teach pentatonic and blues scale boxes (5 note scales grouped in boxes on the fretboard) these are easier to learn when beginning because the scales only have 5 notes to the octave instead of 7. Next I teach 2 note riffs and connecting patterns that are based on intervals of a third (ex.C-E) or a sixth (ex. C-A). Last I would teach individual notes and other scales (major, minor, whole note, etc). To impress the world you probably need to know it all, but there are A LOT of professional guitarist who don't know JACK about the fretboard, they just know what sounds good. So just go for it.

One last word. The ability to shred scales is impressive. On this subject Charlie Parker (sax player extraordinaire) when asked how he could do the amazing things he did purportedly replied, "I practice the scales and practice the scales and practice the scales and then when I get up on the stage I just forget all that shit and wail."

Brent B

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Permalink Reply by James Huckson on May 1, 2009 at 10:36pm

Brent. What do you mean by 'shredding scales'? This is a term I have yet to come across in my lessons, which are predominately in the 'classical' direction.

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Permalink Reply by Brent Buhler on May 2, 2009 at 3:59pm

OOopps, sorry James
Shredding is the playing of riffs, scales and runs so blisteringly fast that listenings are left wondering "How the heck does he DO that?!"

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Permalink Reply by Jeff Williams on May 3, 2009 at 1:36am

Chop , Dice .. then Shred .. in that order .. haha
Then cook slowly at 98.6 in a preheated brain for 10 years ..
you'll have a veritable buffet of musical nourishment ..
lol

All kidding aside .. learn theory .. and in the process of learning theory you'll get an idea of what to learn next.
In a way .. Chop Dice and Shred is sort of an analogy for learning the bulk / basis of music, then finer details .. till your eventually concerned with even the tiniest details ..

Best of Luck and Enjoyment on your musical journey
Jeff

Jeff Williams / Acoustic Guitar Tapping
www.jeffwilliams-usa.com

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Permalink Reply by Patrick Curley on May 3, 2009 at 4:07am

I reckon that it's crucial to get your right hand sorted early. The really good players have a smooth right hand and ordinary players can sound great as long as they can groove. It's the right hand that makes the noise.

Of course you need a few chords or a melody or something, you don't want to be playing open strings all of the time but as soon as that is under control figure out a right hand technique and get to work perfecting it early, it's the hardest part of playing the guitar and once sorted the rest is a piece of cake (well....).

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Permalink Reply by Jamie Marie Andreas on May 10, 2009 at 10:07am

There are two aspects to the learning path: musical, and technical.

You cannot play one note without the technique required to place a finger behind a fret and pluck a string, and most things are a bit more complex than that. And so, the first obstacle that every beginner encounters is the physical, technical barrier. I have seen hundreds of people in my 37 years of teaching (all styles) that never even got to be able to change chords smoothly after years of lessons, and sometimes 10 or 20 years of playing, Many more have never been able to improve beyond a level they reached rather early and stayed at.

The reasons are always physical, technical, and lack of any knowledge of how to practice, which means knowing how the body learns.

Virtually all existing guitar methods teach according to the logic of how the guitar is constructed, and not how the body learns. So, every one learns the notes at the first fret, first string because it is called the first fret first string - even though that is the hardest place to play. Many unfortunate beginners will tense all their upper arm muscles as soon as they extend the arm and try to flex the undeveloped fingers, and that tension will be reinforced every time they practice (muscle memory). It can and does limit their playing forever after.

The left hand should be developed up the neck at first, with the arm in close to the body. The fingers should then be developed for independent action (and then the world would not be full of students and players who curl and tense their pinky every time 3 goes down, which makes scales kind of difficult).

The bottom line is, once you know how the body actually learns you can teach your fingers anything, and then you can play all the beautiful music you want, with ease. After all, the real instrument we are playing is the body itself, which then plays upon the guitar.

Jamie

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Permalink Reply by Bob Quinn on May 15, 2009 at 10:33pm

Hi Jamie,

Just want to say thanks for putting this piece of wisdom up here. I'm almost 40 years into this guitar playing business, and like in the Matrix movie...suddenly, it's all becoming clear to me. I can finally see the logic of the neck.

But in my excitement to move forward, I've been pushing too hard and am beginning to feel those nagging beginnings of left wrist and fore arm problems. I am going back in now and analyzing what I'm doing, and I think I've found the issue...part of it is just what you're saying in terms of muscle memory being being learned at first position.

I'm now using a left hand calibration technique that I learned from one the Chet Atkins videos. Using this test I found that I've been applying way too much pressure going up the neck..so I'm making these adjustments now.

Without having read your thoughts on this, I met never have met these conclusions.

Thanks for your thoughts Jamie.

Bob Quinn

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Permalink Reply by Central Valley Musician on May 10, 2009 at 11:13pm

Jamie, how profound. I never thought to think of it this way; ineteresting. How do you get to this point though?

Jamie Marie Andreas said:

There are two aspects to the learning path: musical, and technical.

You cannot play one note without the technique required to place a finger behind a fret and pluck a string, and most things are a bit more complex than that. And so, the first obstacle that every beginner encounters is the physical, technical barrier. I have seen hundreds of people in my 37 years of teaching (all styles) that never even got to be able to change chords smoothly after years of lessons, and sometimes 10 or 20 years of playing, Many more have never been able to improve beyond a level they reached rather early and stayed at.

The reasons are always physical, technical, and lack of any knowledge of how to practice, which means knowing how the body learns.

Virtually all existing guitar methods teach according to the logic of how the guitar is constructed, and not how the body learns. So, every one learns the notes at the first fret, first string because it is called the first fret first string - even though that is the hardest place to play. Many unfortunate beginners will tense all their upper arm muscles as soon as they extend the arm and try to flex the undeveloped fingers, and that tension will be reinforced every time they practice (muscle memory). It can and does limit their playing forever after.

The left hand should be developed up the neck at first, with the arm in close to the body. The fingers should then be developed for independent action (and then the world would not be full of students and players who curl and tense their pinky every time 3 goes down, which makes scales kind of difficult).

The bottom line is, once you know how the body actually learns you can teach your fingers anything, and then you can play all the beautiful music you want, with ease. After all, the real instrument we are playing is the body itself, which then plays upon the guitar.

Jamie

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Permalink Reply by Robert Mullins on May 11, 2009 at 6:19pm

Jamie,

Great answer. I agree with what you said. I would like to just share something that I have done with all of my new students.I hope that this can compliment your expression.

When we would set up and prepare, get the guitars tuned and were all ready I would ask them If they were ready. Invariably they would reply "Yes". At this point I would ask them to put their guitar down. They would always be puzzled at this, which was understandable. I would then ask them what they heard in their head. What is in their head? Can they hear it? Can they sing it? Could they "hear" what they had practiced?

I would then explain that the connection of the head and the hands cannot be overlooked. What we play, we hear in our heads. If this seems odd, then watch some guitar players mouths as they are "shredding", they are many times mouthing what they are playing in some fashion. I would also ask them to compose something...Anything... for the next lesson. This would serve to begin to reinforce the mind/hand connection. They would be tapping into that place, using what they were learning, and making it their own, right from the beginning. This always proved helpful to students and helped them connect with their own inner voice, helping to bring that voice out, as they were learning.

Watch a small child at play, many times they are mindlessly singing a song, sometimes one they heard sometimes something they made up. They give no thought to who is listening, it is pure expression. We seem to lose that as we get older, but we need it as musicians. The idea is to tap into that place and make a bridge that we can use as we develop. learn and grow.

Hear your voice and express it. ....Just a thought.

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Permalink Reply by James Huckson on May 15, 2009 at 10:05pm

As an adult learner (in my late '40's) I am appreciating that there is a lot more to playing music than just plucking the strings. A reasonable musical interpretation of a piece requires so much more depth, for example , singing the notes; tapping the toes; anticipation; imagery......and so on. Being 'in the music' , in my mind would have made it easier for me to learn. Introducing these elements of music to children, as early as possible, would make playing any instrument easier. I realise that my initial academic/theoretical approach is limited, but I am gaining an awareness of the many other aspects of learning guitar. There are so many facets in musical development which I find stimulating!

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Permalink Reply by Central Valley Musician on May 15, 2009 at 11:06pm

Hi James, what makes you think that your academic/theoretical approach is limited; your age?

I am also in my 40's..

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Permalink Reply by Clyde Tullis on May 26, 2009 at 9:17am

The suzuki method says to take care of the right - strumming (bow)hand first. With a violin students start by waving and then tapping the bow. Have you read "Ninja Guitar"? Kind of the same thing.

Maybe you can think of the different elements (chords, keys, scales, notes, fretboard) as stepping stones to learning. Separate but integrated skills. Use the one that a student finds fun/easy and can achieve success at first and can use to gain success in the others. The path then would be dictated by the students progress and their motivations.

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