How much does the quality of the guitar matter?

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Permalink Reply by Walt Pilcher on September 4, 2009 at 3:24pm

Hugh,

I believe the guitar does make a difference. I started with a $220 Greg Bennett, and it was fine. I could have afforded something more expensive, but I didn't know how starting on guitar at my age was going to work out. It looked good, sounded nice and mellow (nato mahogony), and worked fine for me for about a year and a half. But I knew, after awhile of playing with other folks in my music circle, that it didn't have the volume or crispness I really came to want, plus other people's guitars were actually a little easier for me to play. I don't know why, because my set up was fine according to my teacher, but they were.

When I decided to reward myself for sticking with guitar for 18 months, I started looking for something better and bought a Taylor 210e. Still not high end, but substantially more expensive than the Greg Bennett. I did get a good deal on it at Guitar Center, and I know you can get even more for your money with a used guitar, although you have to shop more carefully. To me the Taylor sounds tons better, and it is significantly easier to play (I still don't know why), which makes me enjoy it more and want to play and practice more than I was doing with the first guitar.

In the process of looking at a lot of guitars I discovered that in fact different makes, and even different guitars of the same model, sound different. For example, Martins have a distinctive Martin sound. Taylors do too, and very different from Martins, because of important construction differences. I wouldn't have been able to discern this when I started, so you'll have to take my word for it, but somehow through experience I've "learned" this. I'm sure others in the group will agree.

Now, if it really doesn't make any difference to you in terms of sound or playability, there's nothing wrong with that either. But if you take the time, maybe not right now but after a few months of playing, to listen to and play different models and brands, and let experienced players point out things to you, you might find you really can detect some differences and you may develop some preferences that you can act on. At least that was my experience.

By the way, if blindfolded I think I could tell the difference between Coke and Pepsi too! Years of experience!

Walt

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Permalink Reply by Clark Ellison on September 4, 2009 at 3:27pm

You are on the right path. Everyone tells you to get the best you can afford and you have no idea what makes it the best. If you continue to play will get a number of guitars as you progress with your playing and decide what type of playing you really want to do. What you want to do is learn to play so I would stay away from "package" guitars and go with a mid level guitar. A package guitar is the ones you buy for your eight year old so they can see how hard it is to learn and it will not bother you when they pitch it in the closet with all the other must have things they never completed. Go to your local guitar store and play around on some then go home. repeat many times until you decide what you like for a starter guitar. A good time to go is about an hour after practice. Then an hour after getting home practice on what you have. You will begin to get a feel for what you do not like about the one you have and what you do like about others. Once you have a "list" of what you like, then start eliminating guitars until you get the one you want. If your budget is three hundred or three thousand the process is the same. Next we will dicscuss how different the guitar sounds with different strings. Just kidding, I have not yet settled on which strings I really like.

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Permalink Reply by ZHMMY HARPER on September 4, 2009 at 5:13pm

Hey Hugh!

Do you remember the car your dad bought for you when you reached Senior in High School? Well, if you do you're lucky - I didn't get one! I do remember some guys did, and most of them bitched for days about the Rambler American or Studebaker their parents picked out for them - it didn't go fast enough, the girls didn't think it was cool, etc. etc.

But you know what? It got them where they wanted to go, and they found out that it was personality, not a car, that mattered to the girls that were the most important!

Okay, what's my point? Dang, I forgot!!

Oh yeah - To start with, just get the one that sounds the best and is within your budget. It will get you where you want to go, and most of those girls usually don't know one guitar from another (of course no offense intended to any of you Women guitarists!)

You'll hear all sorts of remarks about the very best of the best guitars out there. Martins, Taylors and Gibsons are great guitars, sure. But they cost a lot of money for starting out as a student. Two things: Make sure the guitar you buy, whether new from a dealer or used from a pawn shop, has at least a solid top. Second, check the neck especially if you are buying a used one. E6 string height at the 12th fret should be no more than 1/8 inch. Then put a capo on fret 1, hold down fret 12 and the clearance at fret 9 should be credit card thickness or less, but not touching.

Also, when you buy a guitar, new or used, spend the money to get a guitar shop repairman to do a low action setup for you. This is especially important when you are starting out. It's hard enough to learn how to play, and you don't need the aggravation of sore fingertips.

More about setups. I can make a $500 used Takamine play and sound as sweet as a $1000 Martin, Gibson or Taylor. That's how important setups are.

-Zhmmy

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Permalink Reply by Kyle Ober on September 5, 2009 at 1:58am

My teacher also claims that the better the guitar, the faster we (group lesson students) will learn. I have to take that with a grain of salt since he earns his living teaching and selling guitars. On the other hand, a few students have bought expensive Taylors and claim they are able to play their chords more easily


Hello Hugh,

Guys like this really irritate me, especially if they're selling Taylors or the like. There is a definitive element of truth to what he says in that a better guitar (and supposedly more $$), theoretically is built with more care, has a better neck design and has better action and therefor easier to play assuming one has some command of chord structure (if you['re a beginner). And of coarse, generally speaking, they sound better. And once you do begin to hear "IT" that "SOUND" becomes very subjective and hopefully you won't be swayed just by the name. I've played multiple amounts of stratospherically priced brand name guitars and walked way unimpressed, Taylor among them.

In fact the only Taylor I ever really liked was their Anniversary edition (I forget which) some 20+ years ago for over 4 G's, right around the time they changed the coating on their lower end guitars
that "had" sounded great, before the fact. Martin did something similar in the 80's and as far as I can tell up until fairly recently, where their guitars simply did not sound as good, at least to my ears. A few months back I played a $700 Martin (which is pretty cheap these days for a good Axe) and was more than pleasantly surprised for the first time in many years. I have yet to be impressed with a Taylor in this price range. Again, all things being relative .... My ears ...

My point in all this is .. if you want a good guitar to learn on, not spend anywhere near a fortune and most likely hang on to even once you get the addiction bug ... and it will happen if you get into it much less inspired by a half decent guitar to learn with ... is go get a ... "Seagull S6" (not the slim) .... It rivals some guitars 3x the price. I guarantee you won't be sorry. You'll be hard pressed to find anybody who says a bad word about these instruments. New, it'll run you between $3-400. Used you can find them for about $200. Often a good deal can be had on ebay for these. Normally I wouldn't suggest ebay for buying an instrument however these are pretty consistent in craftsmanship. I bought one for a friend of mine on ebay and it was gorgeous. I did speak with them beforehand and knew it was in good shape.

And oh yeah, the best part is ..... when you walk into your teacher with it, his face will drop because he knows you have a good guitar, although he may not admit it, without having paid him at least triple the price for a Taylor (I'm assuming) and there's a good chance it sounds better. You'll know that later on most likely :-)

And no ... I don't sell them, or work for the company :-)

Ciao,
Kyle

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Permalink Reply by Donna Zitzelberger on September 5, 2009 at 8:46am

I encourage my students to start out on an inexpensive but quality guitar -- one that will set up well and stay in tune; and most important one that fits well. In general, dreadnaughts are hard to learn on -- unless you are a tall man with long arms. I generally recommend OM guitars - they are a nice fit. There are lots inexpensive guitars that play well. The Fender T-Bucket is my current favorite, These are laminate guitars. If you can get a solid top guitar with laminated sides and back, you will get a nicer sound. Takamine also makes some very nice guitars in the lower price range (G series). Seagull is another brand that makes a nice guitar. I used to like Ibanez's inexpensive acoustics, but too many students have had problems with them. Martin's X series is inexpensive with a nice sound -- the OM is about $400-$500 - solid top.

It takes time to develope an ear for woods. My beginner students cannot tell the difference between their laminate guitars and my Collings OM2H -- unless they are sophisticated listeners who spend a lot of time in acoustic music shops. After about 1 year or 2, they begin to hear the difference and become frustrated on their guitars. Then it is time to move on. By then they also are committed to the instrument. In general, I then recommend a solid wood top with laminate back and sides.$500 price range. Or solid wood top with solid back and laminate sides (Breedlove and Takamine carry guitar like this) - a bit more $1000 price range. If a student becomes very serious, then I recommend a solid wood guitar -- $2000 and up. And that's when we start talking about the Martins, Taylors, and Gibsons and guitar made by private luthiers.

Your teacher is wrong. I learned guitar on a plywood Sears Silvertone guitar -- the same one Johnny Cash learned on. I played that guitar for 6 years - learned to strum, fingerpick, etc. As long as the action is good and it stays in tune, and you have the correct strings, you will learn. I bring inexpensive student guitars to a local luthier and he sets them up beautifully. They play easily and smoothly and the kids learn well. I have a current student who just auditioned and received a spot in the private teaching studio of James Smith (the chair of the classical guitar dept. at USC). He learned on a laminate guitar - played it for 5 years. Last year, he got a Cordoba - solid top with laminate sides and he is using that for the next 3 years as he prepares for his USC audition. I imagine when he gets to his senior year in high school, prior to the audition, he will be ready for a solid wood guitar.

It's not an expensive guitar that will get you to learn fast; it is your passion or desire to play that will get you to learn fast.

My thoughts,

Donna

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Permalink Reply by barry duncan on September 6, 2009 at 1:18pm

i agree on your passion and desire to play. it is not easy,how bad do you want it
this is the bottom line.i love cheap guitars they make you work for good sound

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Permalink Reply by John J. Cebula on September 5, 2009 at 9:29am

Hugh,

I have two acoustics--a Taylor 314ce and a Walden D-something. The Taylor sounds better when I fingerpick, but does it sound $1000+ better?! That's debateable. I really love the Walden for strumming open-string chords.

Having the luxury of being semiretired, I get to spend several afternoons a month visiting guitar stores (SA and GC, as well as small, local shops). For the money, Yamahas and Ibanezes <$600 sound pretty good. Fenders and Ovations at any price sound so-so to me. I have consistently been underwhelmed by Martins, have liked pricier Gibsons, and have been amazed by the consistency in the quality of sound with Taylors.

So here is what I decided for myself: get the best you can afford, but after a certain point, you're probably not going to be $$$ wowed by the sound. All things being equal, consider playability (I find Taylors very playable; Martins not so much). Consider that wood is organic--one "identical" guitar can be very different from another. Because they are wood, the sound of your guitar will change overtime; think of your guitar as a spouse: you can be married to one person for 25 years, but he or she won't be the same person for the 25 years. Deal with it.

I think guitars are a lot like wine: there is a difference between a $3 bottle and a $30 bottle, but you might prefer the $3 bottle. Also, how many people really appreciate the difference between the $3 bottle, the $13 bottle, the $30 bottle, the $300--you catch my drift.

Good luck with your search.

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Permalink Reply by Jeroen Wenting on September 5, 2009 at 10:16am

It certainly matters, but it's a thing of diminishing returns.
Many people buy a $100 guitar (or cheaper) that's hardly worthy of the name and quit.
They quit because they just can't get a clean note or chord out of it and think they "don't have it", when in fact their instrument is utterly incapable of producing a clean note because it's very poorly constructed.
Some of those might be able to be set up to be somewhat decent, but that would cost more than a better instrument (new nut, saddle, frets, neck straightened and flattened, etc. etc. etc.).

I always suggest people start out with an acoustic in the €400 range. There are a lot of decent instruments in that price class, and they'll last for quite a while before you want something else.
And quite apart from that, the investment gives the student an incentive to keep working on it so it's not wasted.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Kline on November 10, 2009 at 8:46pm

While I do agree with you on this, I did manage to purchase a Yamaha starter Guitar kit for my daughter at GC, that has turned out to be a very decent guitar, but I definitely believe it was just the luck of the draw that day. I started with a very cheap and badly setup guitar and did not appreciate the painful experience of learning to play barre chords, although subsequently all three of my kids have benefitted from that experience.

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Permalink Reply by Hugh McCloskey on September 5, 2009 at 8:52pm

Hi guys,
I want to thank all of you for your thoughtful and comprehensive responses. You have given me a lot of good advice to consider and act on and a whole bunch of helpful tips. Thanks again to each of you. I think I'm going to like it around here.
Hugh

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Permalink Reply by James P. Royle on September 6, 2009 at 7:09am

Hi Hugh,
I started with a Breedlove Atlas, which was a decent quality guitar, $750 or so, and still play it frequently. I use it for my travel guitar and for friends if we're getting together and need an extra instrument. Concert size with a fast, easy to play action and neck. It's also very pretty and seems extremely sturdy, Bridge Doctor support inside,. However, and I'm loyal to no brand, I have a Taylor, 814 ce, Breedlove Focus SE, and two exceptionally nice archtops, that given the choice of playability, 58 year old heavily used hands, and overall tone, I end up never even taking the Atlas out of it's case, other than, I simply like it like an old friend. I'm a tone nut!!!! with hyper-critical ears and can hear the difference from a room away. But I'm an audiophile nut that built his house around several high-end music sysytems so maybe you will find something in a medium price range that you will fall in love with. Most of the advice above sounds good to me, especially Donna's. Most importantly, HAVE FUN with it. At our age, nothing else makes sense to me. Good luck with your search, Jim

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Permalink Reply by barry duncan on September 6, 2009 at 1:23pm

i have been looking at purchasing a new guitar for 6 months
dont want to break the bank, just have fun.i am being patient
i play a 1984 sigma dm-3 i like it

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