Effect of Alternate Tunings on the Guitar

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by John Wilson on February 22, 2009 at 1:10pm

The effect of constant re-tuning is negligible. Lots of folks change tunings on instruments of all levels of quality. The weather (heat, cold, humidity) is a far greater culprit when it comes to structural problems than retuning.

The biggest problem that occurs with changing tunings is that your low action becomes slightly lower, resulting in fret buzz. Placing a shim under the saddle, is a good temporary fix. A slice from an old credit card makes an excellent shim.

DADGAD is a good starting point for alternate tunings. Most guitarists have already tried dropped D,so your point of reference on the bottom four strings isn't too far off. The intervals between the top two strings remains the same as well. Also, just as in Standard Tuning, there are keys that are more friendly and keys that are not so friendly. You are not, by any means, limited to the key of D.

Permalink Reply by Roy Donkin on February 22, 2009 at 2:56pm

Donna,

unless you are doing tunings that require you to raise the pitch of strings there is no worry about damage at all. If you are raising strings, then you may want to go to a lower gauge than you are currently using. At the same time, lowered tunings may let you use heavier strings. Bottom line though, if you are going back and forth from standard to DADGAD, drop D, or even open C, the strings you have should be fine.

enjoy!

Permalink Reply by Steve Kline on February 22, 2009 at 3:00pm

John gave some excellent advice. I haven't had to use a shim for any of the tunings I use, but it differs for every guitar and every guitar setup.

Permalink Reply by Donna Zitzelberger on February 22, 2009 at 11:12pm

Thank you for your responses everyone. I appreciate you taking the time to educate me! Onward with the DADGAD!

Donna :)

Permalink Reply by Greg O'Haver on February 24, 2009 at 12:59pm

Donna,
A great alternative to re-tuning your guitar is partial capos. I designed 4 new capos for Kyser called the K-Lever Series of Partial Capos. They are:
Drop D
Double Drop D
DADGAD
and Open G
While there are trade offs with partial capos, the advantages are fantastic. The chord voicing is outstanding and of course the ease of just putting on a capo and you're in an alternate tuning. Google Trace Bundy and watch some of his videos to see what can be done on the advanced end of the spectrum. On the novice end, you are working with familar chord formations since we didn't change the tuning of the guitar. There is no settling in of the strings to their new tension during the song. My take has always been the less tuning on stage, the more fun that is had on stage for players and audience alike.
You can look on My Page to see pictures of these capos and read more. Also check out Gary Lee Joyner's page, he delves into this subject with great expertise.
Blessing, Greg

Permalink Reply by Greg O'Haver on February 24, 2009 at 1:21pm

Donna,
Here is a very nice mini-article by Gary Lee Joyner. You might enjoy.
Reply by Gary Lee Joyner on January 26, 2009 at 3:07pm
I understand reservations about partial capos. I owned several Third Hand capos for many years, pulling them out occasionally to fool with them. I thought they were cute and novel. It was clever to be able to make an E chord with two of them, etc. But they never fired my imagination, so I would set them aside time after time.
I had an epiphany at some point. I’m not sure what triggered it. One contributing fact—I switched to a headless guitar with the tuners in the body of the instrument. The tuners are under the strings making it cumbersome to change tunings, especially on stage. Necessity brought my attention back to partial capos. A light bulb switched on and I took off. Since then I have thought, hacked, and chopped my way to where I now have a couple dozen different customized partial capos. I sometimes use several at once. (Others are blazing trails in this area as well, notably Trace Bundy who is doing some wonderfully creative work.)
One way to think about the capo/tuning world is to visualize three models. Each offers a unique set of values and usefulness. Generally speaking:

1. Standard tuning. Decidedly well-conceived and flexible. Familiar shapes, scale patterns, CAGED system, etc. We know how to navigate to a degree determined by our individual level of development.
2. Altered tuning. A new world. New shapes. Easy to get lost. The opportunity to explore a fresh system with new road maps for finding one’s way home. New sounds. Intervals not readily available in standard tuning. Many find ideas and inspiration in this context that maybe wouldn’t have come in standard tuning. A common perception persists that altered tuning simply means easy chord shapes for beginners to execute quickly. This is true to a point, of course, but altered tunings can also offer advanced players as much difficulty and challenge as they may crave.
3. Partial capos. Often compared to altered tuning, causing more confusion than clarity. This is a distinct approach that has selected benefits of each of the others while bringing some of it’s own to the game. Familiar chord shapes are there (they are most noticeable in bar forms) because we are still in standard tuning. Any shape that only uses notes fretted above the capo(s) will function “normally.” The inclusion of unfingered strings in chord shapes, intervals, and linear runs reveals the magic of partial capoing. Notice that I avoid the terms “unfretted” or “open”, because not all of the strings are actually open. Some interesting mind-bending occurs regularly as you work this turf. You may be playing along, getting the sounds you expect, when suddenly a surprise sound leaps out at you. On the other hand, in the process of discovering new sounds you may forget that you are in standard tuning when equally suddenly you remember that all your familiar shapes are still there. The turf is the same, but the opportunities have changed. Partial capoing can be explored with a minimum of technique and knowledge, but greater knowledge of the fingerboard and music theory will increase your potential. Partial capoing already has us thinking outside the box, but may I encourage you to think outside of this new box, as well? For example, the partial capo that creates an Esus chord when applied to strings 3-5 at the second fret can be placed in other positions. It doesn’t take long to figure out that coming from the other side of the neck creates an A chord. (These two approaches are often termed DADGAD and G Tuning, respectively, because they mimic the open strings of those tunings. I prefer the more accurate designations of Esus and A.) But it doesn’t end there. It can be placed on other frets. One of my students has gotten a great deal of mileage out of placing his Esus capo on fret four. Multiple capos increase the potential logarithmically. I have many pages of capoing diagrams that resulted from exploring capo position potential. Sometimes I try to figure out a way to capo an interesting scale environment, or search out unusual intervals and unisons between capoed and uncapoed strings, and so on. Sometimes I randomly place capos to see what turns up. Sounds that seem unuseful at first can reveal treasures after some experimentation. There is an endless world of creative potential. Mixing partial capos with altered tunings expands the palette even further. I teach a two hour workshop on partial capoing that leaves people’s eyes spinning and yet barely scratches the surface. Exciting stuff.


By the way, I picked up a set of the new Kyser K-lever capos at Winter NAMM. They successfully address a problem in partial capoing that has been apparent to anyone who has explored this world in any depth. It’s the issue of fretting open bass strings on frets that fall under the capo. I eagerly anticipated their arrival and I’m having lots of fun with them. I stopped by the Kyser booth several times during NAMM, often not saying anything and just watching the response as Greg O’Haver demonstrated the capos to individuals. It was fun to see the light go on in their eyes. Everyone was excited by the design.
I enjoyed connecting with Greg again. He’s a fine man and fully deserves the success that is sure to follow this project. We sat together at the Acoustic Café concert on Friday night, appreciatively consuming delights from the excellent food and beverage buffet. We also were able to hang backstage and see old and new friends. Greg didn’t miss a trick, eagerly showing everyone his capos…the hardest working man in show biz.
I must mention that I am also using Peter Einhorn’s new Spider capo. Peter and Greg have each significantly raised the bar in the capo world. The Spider brings the possibilities offered by the venerable Third Hand capo into the new millennium. Very cool. Three Spiders will greatly reduce the number of customized capos I have to haul around. (Capos get heavy, especially problematic when checking baggage on an airplane.)
The capo world is imperfect. It is an art, not a science. I love to see the creativity and design potential that it unleashes in others and myself. But most importantly, I love to hear the sounds.
Gary Lee Joyner
garyleejoyner.com

Permalink Reply by Donna Zitzelberger on February 25, 2009 at 10:51pm

Hi Greg,

Thanks for telling me about this and for sharing the article. A friend of mine recently sent me a link to your capos, and at the time it made no sense. Now it does. It's really intriguing and I will definitely check more into it!

Thanks again very much!

Donna

Greg O'Haver said:

Donna,
A great alternative to re-tuning your guitar is partial capos. I designed 4 new capos for Kyser called the K-Lever Series of Partial Capos. They are:
Drop D
Double Drop D
DADGAD
and Open G
While there are trade offs with partial capos, the advantages are fantastic. The chord voicing is outstanding and of course the ease of just putting on a capo and you're in an alternate tuning. Google Trace Bundy and watch some of his videos to see what can be done on the advanced end of the spectrum. On the novice end, you are working with familar chord formations since we didn't change the tuning of the guitar. There is no settling in of the strings to their new tension during the song. My take has always been the less tuning on stage, the more fun that is had on stage for players and audience alike.
You can look on My Page to see pictures of these capos and read more. Also check out Gary Lee Joyner's page, he delves into this subject with great expertise.
Blessing, Greg

Permalink Reply by Richard Smith on February 26, 2009 at 10:32am

I have a short scale (29.5") guitar that I use for slack key. My concern was that light strings would make the strings kind of sloppy so I put on a set of bluegrass strings (3 bottom strings are mediums and 3 top are lights). This has worked really well. I may try mediums for all strings at some point.

Permalink Reply by Mike Simpson on February 26, 2009 at 3:33pm

There are a number of partial capo options that avoid much retuning, but give different palette options. The Shubb folks make my favorites. Some like the Kyser capos - if you have a thin-necked guitar like Taylor, these work quite well. The Spider Capo is a very flexible option. Both Shubb and Kysers can be cut to fit, to some degree, if you are 'handy'.

Permalink Reply by Marshall on March 1, 2009 at 6:23pm

I don't think alternate tunings affect the top at all. But if you have a long scale thin necked guitar, the different tension on the strings can make the neck move and cause buzzing untill adjustments are made to the truss rod. But that's small potato stuff and should not stop anyone from trying.

One thing I like about my vintage Gibsons is that they have a short scale, (so the tension is less), and thick necks (baseball bat ?), so they take different tensions withoug much change at all in the palyability of the instrument. I even tune Standard down a whole step for a couple tunes, and it plays just fine. Then I bring it right back up without any other problem.


PS - If you want to start a separate thread about partial capos then do that. But stop inturrupting other threads with long posts that are really sales pitches for your products. I find that annoying.

Permalink Reply by Peter Lynch on June 8, 2009 at 5:09am

I've used alternative tunings for many years on both my Tanglewood and Jedson acoustics without any trouble. I use open G, open C, drop D, open D. Open C particularly is a lowish tuning which I often use and it's given me no trouble on my guitars when re-tuned back to standard. If you don't want to re-tune the guitar, you could use Shubb partial capo model C7B for psuedo-DADGAD and model C8B for psuedo-drop D, but which are 2 steps up. I discovered them a few years ago and they are superb. Hope this helps. Peter